I understand the need people have to save a show.  I do.  They watch and in the process become emotionally attached to characters.  They want to keep their favorite shows on.  So they send people nuts or Mars Bars.  At least with the Mars Bars the people at The CW got some candy.  What I can’t stand watching though is when someone takes advantage of fans.

The latest rip off scam?  Try this:

This is a scam.  You’re never going to see your money or TSCC ever again.  If you really want to burn your money I can start a paypal account too.  Send me the money, and when you send enough I’ll pay for a DTV movie to be made, really.  All we need is approximately $5M.  So all you TSCC fans just send in $1.  We’ll have your show saved.

Chances are very high that you’ll never see that moving billboard either.  Chances are extremely high actually.  You see this scam has been done before.  Someone did this with MOONLIGHT.  They got the money, and no moving billboard was ever seen.

Would a moving Billboard even work?  NO.  It wouldn’t do anything.  This show is dead.  Heck, as of today Warner has no plans to ever make another TERMINATOR movie.  This franchise is D-E-A-D.  If you thought the hit movie would save the TV show, what will a tremendous flop do for your TV show?  It’s definitely not helping.

You want to save it, I’ll start that paypal account.  I promise if it gets to $4M I’ll see the movie gets made with Glau, etc. and I’ll even hire a real writer to write the damn thing.  However, I’ll only give you 4 months to gather the money.  Any money left in the pot after 4 months is mine to do with as I see fit.

What you don’t trust me?  Then why on earth have people given that site nearly $1,000?  He doesn’t need $1,000 to help run his little web site, but you see that is the ripoff part.  The small print:  to maintain the site and pay for the billboard.  He’ll likely get close to $2k. and keep the cash.  Not a bad way to make $2k.  Just put up a site and wait for the suckers to come give you money.

This show is dead.  It’s a rotting corpse.  It is 100% unsavable.  I know the people at Warner.  It’s dead.  Now if you straight up paid them for a DTV… you’d convince them.  They’d make it.  They’d have it paid for and then they could make DVD profit from it.  Hire someone who isn’t a hack to write it (in other words stay as far away from Friedman as possible) and you might get decent sales.  Money is the only thing that can save this show.

If you pay for a moving billboard it will be the joke of the day that day on the lot.  That isn’t good PR, that’s bad PR.  However, I have no reason to trust that person will ever even do it.  If they were serious, you’d be paying the billboard company directly.  They’d set up a paypal account to do it.  However, it’s not being done that way, which means scam.

Continue the discussion at our new site by clicking this link.


102 responses to “SAVE TERMINATOR: THE SARAH CONNER CHRONICLES!!!! (Or Nick C’s How To Make A Quick Buck)

  1. Nick C, great read. I was in the “Moonlight” fanbase and hung out on the forums that people got scammed at. Everyone was blinded by their love for the show, and then realizing after the show ended and all the conventions ended that they were never going to get their money back or see the result of the money. However, we did see a Variety ad for “Moonlight” but not any bus ads or taxi ads. I never put any money into it, so no loss for me but I’m sorry for my friends who did get scammed.

    Thanks for informing the solid fan base of T:SCC of the same scam.

    I love reading your blog! 🙂

  2. They’re pushing this over at the Sarah Connor Society Web site as well. In fact, they may be behind it, I can’t tell. So it might not be a scam as such, but it’s idiotic certainly.

  3. Has it really raised 1,030? Or is this a scam, too? Start the counter at a high number, like 1,000 and allow that to add fuel to the fire?

  4. If it wasn’t a scam, it would say fully refundable if they can’t get enough money.

    If it wasn’t a scam, they’d have people pledging vs. just sending in the money before they even know if they can get enough.

    If it wasn’t a scam, the company doing the billboard would be taking the money and not some unknown paypal account.

    Plus, how do they expect to resurrect the show when the movie trilogy has been canceled?

  5. I liked this show too,”of course” and i heard at one time they were gonna tie the show into the movie somehow but i guess that was just another rumor?Thank God for DVD so i can watch my 2 seasons whenever i want to!I didn’t know the new trilogy has already been cancelled?The movie was really good but i know it’s still about $80 million away from being in the green.That’s alot of ground to make up.I don’t think DVD sales and rentals can help that much! But i’m sure the franchise ” Will Be Back”…

  6. Anything to ever come from “The Sarah Connor Society” website was idiotic to begin with.

  7. Terminator Salvation total gross so far is:

    Domestic: $121,925,747
    + Foreign: $201,543,644
    = Worldwide: $323,469,391

    Since DVD sales now usually equal the movie take or more, I expect TS will recoup its costs at least, and if it manages to hit $500-600 million total will likely be profitable.

  8. Some Guy named John

    At least the save chuck campaign went with a non for profit and a corporate sponsor. I dont feel bad giving money to actual companies where I know there is some kind of return, but some guy with a paypal account…please!

  9. And everyone got themselves lunch in the process. This Terminator thing seems like a huge waste of time and money, even if it is completely legit.

  10. Nick,

    What are the chances of T5 being made? I hadn’t heard that Warner was dropping the movie franchise as well. While T4 wasn’t great, it also wasn’t as bad as I had feared, and I would be interested in seeing at least one more movie to wrap things up. I’ll be pretty bummed if that doesn’t come to pass.

    As for the scam-site …yeah, that sucks that people are doing such things, but you know what they say about a fool and his money.

  11. RSH, for the movie to make its money back it will have to do another $50M domestically (never going to happen), $100M internationally (never going to happen), and $200M in DVD sales.

    Remember something like 30% of both domestic and international end up in the hands of the theaters, for international distribution they’re only getting a percentage as well.

    Throw in marketing costs and the movie cost roughly $350-$400M. They’re no where near breaking even.

    P@, today zero percent. 6 months from now probably 20% and rising. If they can come up with a good script, etc. maybe. However the last movie was so awful (how could SkyNet be so dumb?)….

  12. Wow, Nick C… it saddens me to see that you havent killed yourself yet. And i thought you only knew people at Fox… furthermore, i cant believe i’m reading your blog. Perhaps I NickD should do away with myself.

  13. NickD, thanks for the uplifting response to the site.

  14. So when the mobile billboard actually happens you’ll be writing a retraction right? Obviously you’re welcome to your opinion as to what is useful and what isn’t, as are we (I’m not directly involved with the site but I do support it and its efforts). But if and when you’re proven wrong about the mods trying to scam the fans, being the um, upstanding journalist you are, it will only be right for you to apologize for your (attempts at) damning accusations.

  15. Hemmingway

    I’m the idiot who posted as Nick D. I can vouch that my friend who helps runs save TSCC has no plans of ever buying a billboard.

  16. Rachel, you’ll eat your words!

  17. Phil Lyndon

    Very disappointed with this article.

    You should check your facts before making unfounded accusations like this. I know and will personally vouch for the guys at who are working hard to save the show they and we love.

    Try showing some support rather than slandering people who are trying to make a difference.

  18. Let the fans raise money if they want, who the f*** are you to judge?

    It’s tits like you and those douchbags over at the Examiner who will pulling your feet out of your clearly oversized mouths in August.

    Till then Nick C I have a novel idea, go play with the traffic.

    -dit over

  19. Phil, if it was legit they’d have pledges. When the pledges reached the number needed then they’d ask for your money. If it’s legit, it’s run by idiots.

    Then again anyone who thinks this show can be saved is an idiot.

    LMSE-D33, since I know the rights owners of the show, I can bet you say… $10,000 that the show will never air again. Want to take me up on it?

    That’s what I thought.

  20. I think Nick C is right. They should have done this all better.

  21. The Moonlight debacle, among all the others that came before, should be enough to warn people on how online efforts like this should be handled.

    The best bet is to count pledges first and only once the required amount is reached do you ask for the money and then buy the advertising within a very short timely manner (and provide proof of payment to all who donated).

    Of course, this still doesn’t safe-guard against someone actually collecting more than they claim and pocketing it.

    (oh, and to the person who mentioned the ML Variety ads earlier – the ad ran but the thief stiffed the company for several thousand dollars. The bus ad finally ran, as well, but only after the major donator came forward and contacted the police.)

  22. So you’re saying the SavetheSCC Billboard funding is definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, a scam? I find it funny that, even with the popularity of your site’s message among TSCC circles, has said little to defend itself.

    Is this because it simply doesn’t know how to counteract or it really isn’t afraid of anything because it’s not a scam?

    You make decent points, but ones that have very little weight behind them. The negativity toward TSCC’s future is rather amusing as well given the fate of other once-canceled TV series such as Firefly (Serenity), Arrested Development, Jericho…etc… If fan outcry and support has proved anything over the years, it’s that if you
    scream and kick loud enough you get rewarded.

    Will the billboard work, or even see the light of day? Who knows. However, your song against TSCC’s future has no memorable tune. Instead of discouraging fan bases, stick to the melodramatic entries about Chuck fans.

  23. Phil Lyndon

    Nick C – I happen to KNOW its legit – there is no doubt.

    As for the hopes of saving the show, you may be right and you may not be, but calling people idiots for trying is both small minded and misguided. Shows have been saved before and they will be again.

  24. Nick C, when I see your name above a post at tvbythenumbers I always skip it since 6 months because you never say nothing interesting or newsworthy. This here proves you’re full of crap.

    Sorry dude but I don’t think anybody is interested what you have to say.

  25. Nick C, I can’t bare to hear the truth about a show I enjoy watching being canceled, so I am going to delude myself into thinking it has a chance even though it absolutely doesn’t, and attack anyone who disagrees with me with silly accusations which I hope you will find hurtful enough so that you change your mind about the show I love being canceled, even though you know for sure it would stay that way.

    Sorry dude but I don’t think anybody is interested in what you have to say, which is why I am here in your blog reading your posts and commenting on them.

  26. (1) I fully support protecting people from scams.
    (2) Looked through your previous blog posts NickC – much seems reasonable and considered, so I am surprised at:
    (3) The angry tone and use of innuendo, sarcasm, and belittling used frequently in this blog and followup posts by various writers targeting “hopefully idiotic” SCC supporters! I find this (combined with the low level of facts presented and nonexistent investigative journalism regarding in some way sadly hilarious… If I *were* cynical I would think perhaps this is considered a good way to improve your blog hits.
    Please stick to the facts , thank you – and perhaps elaborate on details such as your contacts at WB and why they cant see any way it can make a profit? I am surprised how many people I know (SciFi lovers) who are unaware of the SCC series many of whom I am confident WOULD watch. Good luck with your blog.
    ps – In fairness there is admittedly some non-useful content on both sides here…

  27. G, this has nothing to do with JERICHO. This is TSCC. This is a show that went from 19 million viewers to 3 million. This is a show that is based on a series that Warner isn’t interested in throwing any more money into. Not into a movie. Not into a TV series.

    They lost money in both.

    Now tell me how a billboard in front of their studio is going to make them feel better. It’s just going to make them hate all of you more. Period.

    You want a campaign that would have done something? Get a BUTYTHE DVDs campaign. Then you could at least get a DTV release. Sell enough DVDs you create a market.

  28. marku, lets see… the TSCC fans have logged and posted “kill yourself,” “I’m going to kill you,” “You’re a liar,” etc.

    They deserve the rude remarks. Fact: it is a scam. I researched it. They are going to profit off this whether a billboard pops up or not. Their defense will be to pay for the web site.

    This post is not getting any kind of good hits. You know why? Because TSCC is dead, only the extremely fanatical and some honestly stupid remain. I know they’re stupid because they post childish attacks on here.

    My contacts at Warner are all in executive positions. T4 is going to lose money. There might be a miracle of it breaking even in video. It was too expensive of a movie in the first place. Obviously if they had made the movie cost $100M they would be singing an entirely different tune. Instead it cost over $200M. Marketing was extremely expensive for the film, because they felt the need to make people feel this would be better than T3.

    They don’t get 100% of ticket sales. They get a percent. The percentage is highest in the first week and drops as time goes on. Non-US sales have deals with certain distribution arms within Warner and outside of Warner. So Non-US sales the percentage of their take home is much less than domestic.

    So, no the movie isn’t likely to make money until it comes out on video. Movies that don’t make profit until video don’t get sequels, unless they’re direct to video.

    You want to save TSCC? Find a way to sell 100,000 copies of the DVD domestically. That would save it.

  29. Also, TSCC shouldn’t be saved. Unless you can get in writing that Josh Friedman won’t be allowed near it. Right now he can’t get a job any where in town, so why save his ass?

    Also, Josh shopped this show around to multiple networks and there wasn’t a nibble. Warner wasn’t even interested in pitching it to anyone. So DVD sales is all that you fans could possibly do.

    Money talks. Billboards just remind them “God, we had such a strong property and we destroyed it.”

  30. You researched it? What exactly did you research? How did you come to the conclusion that this is a scam?

    If you’re referring to the note up top with a donate button that says “all donations go toward running and its campaigns” that is a completely different fund. There is the donations to maintain the webpage and then separate from that there is the SavetheSCC billboard fund. Two different pots of money. If you DID research, you would have known that.

    What other research did you hit? Did you talk to any one from If you had, maybe you would be more aware of what actually will be ON the billboard. Ever occur to you that since the billboard is going to be running during the release date of the DVD that they are in fact going to be promoting the DVD?

    Again, what research? Because from what I can tell, you haven’t done anything but come up with baseless accusations. This blog post is all strictly your opinion and void of any fact.

  31. Oh wow, a billboard running in one town is going to be so effective at improving DVD sales…

  32. Me, well not only did I research it, I was told it would cost $2,250. Not the $3,500 they’re asking for. The website had a name of who they were going to use. I contacted them. They told me $2,250, and also stated that they had no idea what I was talking about.

    I posted the message.

    Since then the web site has changed. They’ve removed the name of the company they claimed you could call and ask about it with. They’ve also now put up the cost (and it’s $750 a day, 3 day minimum or $2,250). Yet they’re still asking for $3,500. I don’t know how they’re going to use $3,500. They also now claim they’ll post the invoice once they’ve bought it.

    None of that was on the site when I posted my blog. So, I take it that:

    1. They got some heat because I wrote this.
    2. They changed the site to state they’ll post an invoice.
    3. They changed the site to no longer say the donations were for both the website and the fund.
    4. They changed the site to show how much it was costing per day, and removed the name of the company doing the moving billboard.

    However $3,500 still isn’t evenly divisible by $750.

    Also, that will do nothing to help DVD sales. Absolutely nothing. REAPER has a better chance of being saved, because those fans are actually aiming at what a studio cares about:


    Which is why CHUCK was saved: MONEY.

  33. i contacted the police about this. it was looked into. the police officer i spoke to believes this was likely a scam, but it will now happen because they put the fear of prison into them.

  34. It’s good to see fans passionate about a show but it’s a shame that money is going to essentially be wasted. You could buy more DVDs directly with the money than will ever be purchased due to someone seeing the billboard over that period, I’m sure.

  35. John T Folden, I totally agree. I have no problem with passionate fans. However they keep pointing to shows that were saved when campaigns were run well before now. They’re not talking about this campaign running until the 2nd season DVDs come out!

    Talk about way, way, way too late.

  36. Yeah, and the Firefly, Jericho or Chuck campaigns are the exception not the rule when it comes to fans seeing any results as well.

    Heck, even May was probably too late.

  37. Now I am full of shit. Atomic Outdoor Media hasn’t always been on the site as well as the cost break down. It’s $750 a day with a 3 day minimum plus $1250 production cost. I didn’t know Google kept caches, so I’m an idiot.

  38. BTW, in case you’re poor at math $750X3=2250. 2250+1250 (production cost)=3500

    What, you think they’re not going to charge anybody for the printing of that huge thing? Yeah. Right.

  39. @NickC – Thanks for your response. I completely agree, you have had some angry, childish, and counterproductive responses to the original blog – made me cringe actually. On behalf of SCC fans, I apologize for attacks. Noted that I am a somewhat huge SCC fan and don’t appreciate being called an idiot, but I also try to not take web talk personally. By the way, I have never ever gotten this involved over a TV SHOW!! o_O

    You are close to the industry, and I appreciate hearing from that perspective – I certainly don’t understand how the decisions are made other than in general the $$$. Feedback from “inside” is helpful to me in trying to understand how to at least TRY to help bring back a show that really DOES (in my opinion and many other strong fans) have great potential.

    re, “T4 is going to lose money.” Can you help me understand something here? If T4 is going to lose money, could the argument be made that the SCC might be a way to support the franchise and make some money for eg Halcyon et distributors et others who make $$ off this?

    @John T. Folden – re, one city – Yes, but this is LA… is there is a better place for this, even if it doesn’t work? Spending $3500 will not buy anywhere near 100,000 DVDs, but might spread the word if it catches the right people’s (LA Times, LA Area TV news, …?) attention.

    I am certainly willing to take the chance that someone will ridicule me on the back lot for the chance that it might give some good result. Yes, it just seems like a small billboard on a truck, but, well, we cant just roll over =D

    I wonder if this whole thing might make an good human interest story with links to the internet, claims of scams, hopeful rabid fans, links to sites where people can watch previous episodes… Now there’s some potential PR! Many questions and things to say, but turned into a long post, gtg. Thanks, Later.

  40. PS – Sorry, I for got to say –

    1) No offense, but I still haven’t seen any evidence this is a scam. Worst case, I certainly don’t see a “Madoff style” financial disaster here though. Just some potential good entertainment.

    2) You consider Reaper and Chuck as good examples. Haven’t tuned into what they did – Would you consider some of Reaper/Chuck websites as good sources of information on how to be more likely to succeed at this?

  41. Me, they told me $2,250 TOTAL. I specifically asked about printing. I was told $2,250 total. I know how to make a phone call and ask a question. They also said they hadn’t heard anything about a billboard to save the show.

    Marku, there is no chance of the show being saved. The show lost money for Warner, the movies lost money for Warner. This is a scam. It’s getting your hopes up. They’re pocketing some money from it all. They’re taking advantage of people like you.

    1. Fox was going to cancel the show in the Fall. Warner sold them the new Spring episodes extremely cheap (at a massive loss) in hopes they may break even in overseas sales. Canceled shows don’t get high prices in oversea sales.

    2. Friedman shopped the show and no one had any interest at all.

    So guys who run a forum and fan site think “we can make money off this,” and take advantage of the fans. They aren’t showing you the money they’ve made from idiots pressing the donation button at the top of the screen vs. by the count for the billboard. How many fanatics say “you know, these guys are cool and are working hard to save the show, they need some money,” and click donate?

    They know there is zero chance of the show being saved. NONE. This isn’t me being mean and picking on people.


    Why invest any more into it? The movie might make it back in video. If they can find a way to make a sequel cheap… heck, anything is possible. However today, Warner has no plans for the sequel of the movie. Yet, you think they’ll fork out money for a TV show that lost them money?

    When Halycon first pitched the product to me I told them it was a massive mistake. It needed to be aimed at HBO. They went another route.

    Is there potential in the franchise? There was 2 years ago. Now the combination of Josh Friedman’s Season 2, and T4….

    The potential is still there, but the willingness of an executive to throw money at it just isn’t.

    This campaign should have been started in February. Nope, instead TSCC fans were using bots to load website voting for save a show. Everyone knew this show was dead in February, and some even reported it.

    CHUCK’s campaign was pulled off in a week. All they did was go buy Subway $5 footlongs, fill out the comment card at the Subway. Subway was a major product placement partner with the show. So the fans decided that money talks. So they bought something that would send a message. The result? The show went from canceled (and it was definitely going to be canceled) to saved. Of course, Subway had their best Monday in ages that day.

    REAPER has a realistic goal. They’re trying for syndication or DTV. Either one of those can work, and that show can be inexpensive enough to do it. Their campaign is BUY THE DVD/Petition. Each signature on the petition will come with a DVD receipt. That is hard to ignore.

    TSCC campaigns have no realistic goal. It’s an expensive show. Dodge will no longer be willing to partner with the show. So major funding has been lost there. They’d have to find a way to make the show for less money.

    A goal to ignite a 3rd season isn’t rational. A goal for a DTV to finish the story lines, would be.

    A billboard? That’s going to do nothing. A Variety advert? Smarter, but still nothing.

    You have to do something that they NOTICE. They also have to NOTICE in a positive way, not a negative one. It has to impress. A billboard doesn’t impress. An advert doesn’t impress (although likely more than the billboard).

    A DVD/Petition they’d notice. Get enough signatures to get the Halycon to help. Have them support an official TSCC convention. At the convention sell DVDs and get more signatures. That gets publicity. Publicity gets more DVD receipts and signatures.

    You might then be able to have a large enough number to impress someone into doing something about the show. DTV or syndication. That is about the only chance, and what they’re doing now is going to hurt not help.

  42. Me, look carefully. It doesn’t say $1250 for production, it says for “setup.”

  43. Marku, you’re not an idiot, the idiots are the people trying to convince people, who have no clue about how the industry works, to believe the show can be saved with their money in the manner they’re pursuing.

  44. Nick, go ahead and call that company again and ask about the $1250. I just dare ya. And don’t lie about it. Lying is easy on the internet, so don’t do it it 🙂

  45. Me, why call them again? They told me $2,250. They said 3 day minimum due to the COST OF MAKING THE BILLBOARD. Hmmm…

    Now if these people are hiring a marketing firm to make the design and have invoices for that, maybe they’ll have something.

  46. Marku, you aren’t suggesting that billboard is going to help sell 100,000 DVDs are you? …or that it’s something that is incredibly news worthy? If that Billboard inspires 25 people to purchase a DVD, I’d be surprised.

    I don’t know why anyone would think that. You aren’t the first fandom to buy a Billboard or ad. The difference is that the other fandoms did it as part of a greater, organized scheme AND they did it much earlier in the timeline of events.

    This won’t sway anyone and it certainly won’t do anything to change the idea that TSCC is a money-losing proposition.

    If people are going to bring up prior campaigns like Jericho or Firefly or Chuck then they should perhaps look at how those campaigns succeeded and then they’ll see what’s missing from this one.

    Also, it’s not like people didn’t know about TSCC. 19 million people knew about it and 16 million weren’t interested.

  47. redwinter101

    I’ve read the original post, and the comments, with interest. I can completely understand that desire to save a show you love – and the willingness to get involved in something that you think might, just might, succeed. I think that a lot of fans (and I include myself in that group) have only the vaguest understanding of how best to influence networks and programme makers and it is easy (and tempting) to latch onto any idea as a way to show your support.

    John T. has already mentioned Moonlight so I won’t labour the point. I’ll just say that it is possible to run fan campaigns, including ventures such as this, in an above board way, with proper accountability. If you want to get involved in something, even if its chances of success seem slim to non-existent, then do it – just go in with your eyes open. Do the research (as Nick C has done). Check your facts. And don’t hand over a penny until you’re either a) totally comfortable with where its going, or b) prepared to lose every cent.

    And as for the vitriol in some of these comments, well, I would hate to be associated professionally with a show that had fans who were prepared to behave in such a manner.

    Love your show. Just don’t *love* your show.

  48. @NickC – Thanks very much for the long constructive response – it is very useful and much appreciated. Particularly appreciated given some responses to your blog here. It really does help make things less vague and gives potential ways forward. It is certainly late for all this effort, but I am not quite ready to give up yet 🙂 . By the way, I apologize for my non-charitable feelings when I first read your blog 😉

    @redwinter – Great points, thanks much to you as well. I suppose that I am in the b) position: I am able and willing to lose a relatively small amount on a gamble for something I would love (yet not *love* =D ) to keep around. Even if it is massively unlikely to have any impact… /sigh can’t give up yet. And, again – though it doesn’t take them away, I do apologize for the angry fan comments. But clearly this kind of venue is not ideal for a random sampling – on the whole I prefer to believe SCC fans are rational, thoughtful, and worthy of association.

    @John T Folden – Of course this is not a quantitative science (to me anyway) but I do think the billboard by itself clearly would not get 100K DVDs sold… maybe more than 25 though 🙂 . It is more that we are struggling to find magic bullet(s) -maybe the billboard is a RedRyder BB, but fans are trying to do something useful. And it can do things like start discussions like this that maybe leads down the right path. And maybe/likely it is not newsworthy unless it is a slow news day, don’t know… I must disagree with your addition in at least one sense (avoiding the long discussion at this time). Not my area of expertise, but Neilson clearly does not capture viewership. It does capture that particular spending demographic (and within the US).

    @Fellow SCC fans – The golden rule is a good one, really! Please be reasoned and measured in your responses and discussion. I LOVE (in a good way) this show too, and though it may feel good to blow off steam, it really is counterproductive to spout – it just produces conflict… Please use your passion constructively! Thanks! 🙂

  49. Phil Lyndon

    Marku, Nick C

    I 100% agree that some of the responses above are unacceptable, unnecessary and there’s no call for it. Comments like “kill yourself,” “I’m going to kill you” etc are just wrong

    However, the fact is that this blog was written on unfounded and unsubstantiated allegations against a group of people who are only trying to save a show they love. If people want to contribute to this fund then that is entirely up to them – just because may be going about this in a way you think is stupid is no reason to accuse them of scamming people. I happen to know they are not.

    Nick C – you could have written some of your more constructive comments in the original article (and some of them are very good) but instead chose to throw around these accusations – and this is what seems to have got people so riled.

    As Marku says, lets try and keep this debate sensible and civilised. The rest is just unhelpful.

  50. Phil, you seem to have a problem with this article. It’s entirely accurate. According to one response here the police even believe it was a scam. Notice the word WAS.

    The cache of the billboard page shows that they’ve updated their site since I posted. So we made an impact.

    In addition it was entirely founded. I contacted the billboard company and was told $2,250. I was also told they had never heard of a save TSCC billboard. That combination plus the history with past scams had me write the article.

    The fact is this:

    Whether they end up putting a billboard up or not they’re taking advantage of people and their feelings for profit. It costs roughly $10 a month to run their website, and $10 to buy the domain. Do you really believe that people have only donated a total of $50 to the website? No, there were probably many who accidentally donated to the site instead of the campaign.

    The show will not be saved. Ever. The show is never coming back. I told people at TVBTN this show was canceled back in February the day that Warner & Fox came to the conclusion the show was over. Nothing has changed. Warner has ZERO interest in the TV property. Zero.

    The fans of TSCC should have started their save TSCC campaign in February. Instead they were making stupid bots to make fake votes on website polls about which show should be saved. That helped convince everyone involved the show wasn’t worth saving. Seriously. They decided that since they had to cheat the numbers of real people interested likely had to be lower than PUSHING DAISIES.

    TSCC fans have done nothing to help save a show, and all they have done and are doing is just making sure a new show based on TERMINATOR is further off than sooner.

  51. Phil Lyndon

    Nick C – I won’t be commenting again after this as there is just no reasoning with you. You seem set on being judge and jury for people you disagree with and I have no time for that.

    You mistake your *opinions* for facts and quite simply they aren’t. Donators to the site (entirely legit) and to the billboard do so of their own free will. How on earth do you know what it costs them to run the site – they could be paying any number of things behind the scenes – you pluck things out of thin air and present them as fact!

    And yes you’re correct – I DO have a problem with this article. Well spotted. 🙂

  52. Phil I spoke to lapd after this post too. I was told they were aware of what they called a scam. They said they believe the scammers will be scared into doing the right thing.

    You think nick pulled web costs out of his ass? Registration and hosting costs are cheap as well as widely known.

    Since the police think it was a scam, I think nick did the right thing.

  53. Has it occurred to anyone once that instead of being scared into “doing the right thing” the intent the ENTIRE time was to actually have a mobile billboard? *GASP* shocking, I know!

  54. Me, hmmm 2 different people posted. Both with different IP addresses saying they spoke with police. Both have the same story.

    Police suspect a scam. I suspect a scam, and no matter what you say I’ll say “scam.’ They can produce a billboard and invoices. I’ll still say ‘scam,’ because it is what it is, and in this case it’s a scam.

  55. Nick, that doesn’t make any sense. There is no PROOF of it being a scam. Because two people said they called the police, it’s so? And let’s say they did call the police, so what? The police didn’t investigate it, they’re just saying “hey sounds like a scam” ok.. but they don’t know the details of the situation.

    Tell me, HOW is it a scam if there is actually a billboard? That one goes right over my head.

  56. @Phil – Sorry if I was not clear – I also do not believe the allegations (just to get that straight 🙂 ). I do agree that we can always do a better job of campaigning. If more fans (and I absolutely include >myself< here) had been paying attention and organized earlier we could maybe have been better prepared – a lesson here… :\ Major props to those who did try to get peoples attention early on!

    @re, Police and scam concept – in no way is it considered damning evidence when someone on the net says that the LAPD said that they thought something was a scam. To add that NOW the scammers are scared straight is unfounded and unfair to any honest person… I find it troubling that LAPD would even say this to anyone on the phone. Nor are changes to the website evidence of wrongdoing.

    @Me – Yes, me too (not just you Me). And I think that still 🙂

    @NickC – Well, I hope you are wrong about our chances (nothing personal 🙂 ) Like you, we are all entitled to our opinions and choices, though it may drive you nuts! By the way, I have been reading up on the Save Chuck campaign and on other related info… Am I naive? Heh… in many ways I am, sure. But I am not convinced that SCC fans as a group are incapable of making something happen, nor that we should give up. Nope, not yet, or for some time imo – peace! /

  57. If there is a billboard, I know the cost is $2,250 total. They charged $3,500. I know their website leads to two different paypal donations and one could easily be mistaken for the other. I know it costs next to nothing to buy a domain and maintain a website. However they’re asking for donations to keep the site up. Yet, they want you to donate money for the billboard? They can’t donate the simple money to run the website for the cause? Heck, they could easily get FREE domain hosting and they may have it for all we know.

    That means one thing to me: IT IS FOR PROFIT. Which means they are taking advantage of any fan crazy enough to believe the show can be saved, despite everyone attached to it publicly saying there is no chance in hell of saving it.

    So they keep the site up, and gullible people who are hurt and therefor vulnerable (some people get real close to a show for some reason) get taken advantage of.

    It’s as sick to me as people taking advantage of a widow. It’s wrong. This is someone taking full advantage of the weak, and that is wrong. They may have all of you snowballed, but they’re in it for the money, plain and simple.

  58. @NickC – ps, thanks for posting about Wendy and Save Chuck campaign, useful reading.

  59. Marku, this isn’t an opinion. It’s not my opinion the show can’t be saved. It’s a FACT. Unless you can find a way to generate millions and millions of dollars to make the show profitable, you can’t save the show. 100,000 DVD sales would be a start. However, according to one Producer I spoke with they need close to 1 million in DVD sales to break even.

    The only reason Warner kept the show around for the 2nd half of the season was the movie. They didn’t want negative Brand awareness to hurt the movie launch.

    The site is a scam, it’s for profit. There is no doubt. They’re taking advantage of people exactly like you, they’re getting your hopes up and it’s wrong. It’s like a sick freak who tells someone with a terminal disease that with prayer they can be cured. What they’re doing is wrong.

    I’m very sorry your hopes are being falsely raised. It’s mean.

  60. Read the article. Read the comments. This is what I see.

    NickC – skeptical, calls it a scam, points to specific things that give him that impression, and later in comments, points to specific things that were changed after his initial blog post.

    Phil – asserts its not a scam, but provides no proof, no backup. Just an emotional response.

    Sorry, Phil, you’re not winning me over. I call scam – and even if it isn’t, a billboard is about the least effective way to help “save” a show that I can think of. Seriously, no tv executive is going to look at a billboard, do a facepalm, and start frantically working to get the show back on the air. They probably won’t even notice it – lord knows I don’t remember any of the 23049587 billboards I see on my daily commute, nor do I spend my time gazing out the window.

  61. Phil Lyndon

    Wasn’t aware I needed to provide proof – I’m more of an innocent until proven guilty advocate – so really you should chase Nick C for some.

    Nevertheless see the invoice posted here for the full amount –

    My comments were never about the best way to save the show – they were about not slinging mud with no evidence. I stand by them all.

  62. How quaint, that link doesn’t work/invoice is missing.

  63. I think you’ll find the second link works just fine.

  64. Not for me, it doesn’t… the site reports “Not Found”.

  65. The URL “preview” shows not found but clicking the click is working for me. Here it is again. Just tried it now and it works:

  66. The site comes up but it says

    “Not Found
    Apologies, but we were unable to find what you were looking for. Perhaps searching will help.”

  67. Phil, sorry but I don’t buy it. After I ridiculed them they kept constantly changing their site. I know from Atomic that the bill should have been $1,250 less. Which might be why the image with the wrong amount disappeared?

    I called them out for being scammers because they also asked for donations to keep up a $10 website a month? Really? Now they’ve removed all donations from their site. Why? Because a majority of people agreed with me.

  68. POMSE (D33)

    This is the thing Nick,I molest little boys. I love it!

  69. Funny, all you non-believers. Call Atomic. The reason the invoice is not on the page now… it wasn’t real! Who ever set that up at the fan site pocketed some money. They took advantage of you, and they’re extremely upset that I hurt their ability to make a killing.

    Let me just say, I’m not going to cry myself to sleep because some douche bags on here got upset that I called some jerks out and got them to start behaving.

  70. In all honesty, I feel bad(ly) for the TSCC fans because of the show’s cancellation. But what’s done is done, and it’s time to look ahead to something else.

    There’s always another show that comes down the pike that will “grab us.” I absolutely loved ALIAS and when it ended I didn’t know what I would latch on to as strongly. Then CHUCK came along and I found I liked CHUCK just as much or even more than ALIAS.

    Next season will be the last for LOST, and I’ll be mourning its end – but I’m sure something else will then come along and “grab hold” of me.

    But as long as we’re on the topic of lamenting the demise of a sci-fy show – Nick C. do you happen to remember a really “campy” sci-fy comedy – probably way back in the 70s – I remember I was just a kid when I watched it and loved it – called “Quark.” It probably came out about the time of the Star Wars popularity. Just wondered if you remember the show and had any opinion about it.


  71. Phil Lyndon

    Once more – the invoice IS online, It IS for the right amount – including the $1,250 for the production costs and the link DOES work, I’ve tried it several times.

  72. Phil, that links takes me to-

    “Not Found

    Apologies, but we were unable to find what you were looking for. Perhaps searching will help.”

    Perhaps they only show it to people who actually donated money, in case the police decides to check it out? 😛

  73. Phil that link does NOT work. It may be still contained in your browser cache but it is no longer online for viewing by general site visitors. Your continued insistence that it is despite everyone else confirming that it isn’t is just silly.

  74. This is just so amusing. They attack me even though I helped them and others from getting ripped off further. Yet, they continue to come here and make themselves look more foolish.

  75. Richard Steven Hack

    Just tried that link myself, get the “Not Found” result.

    Phil, clear your cache and try again. It’s not there.

  76. Phil Lyndon

    Continues to work for me! Also tried IE and Firefox (I use Chrome)

    Try going to
    and then clicking the invoice link. It works. All browsers.

  77. Ok, this is weird. Firefox shows that error page. But I tried with Konqueror, which popped up a dialog where I chose “Save As”. And I have the invoice. Here you go:

  78. Richard Steven Hack

    Phil, THAT works. Of course, normally you don’t want people accessing the underbelly of one’s Web site.

  79. Richard Steven Hack

    My guess is the page where the invoice is supposed to be has incorrect HTML, so browsers treat it differently. Haven’t bothered to try viewing the source.

  80. Just so everyone knows, the website posted the confirmation that the check cleared and the billboard is paid for. The invoice is also on the site to show the breakdown of the $3500.

    What happened with NickC more than likely was he spoke to someone from Atomic but not the same rep that the website spoke to. Since the website hadn’t made an order yet, the person Nick talked to had no idea what he was talking about since it wasn’t an official order. If Nick had spoken to the same rep the website was using, he probably would have heard differently.

    I think it’s pretty safe to say this campaign is not a scam and never was. Nick is attempting to say he scared them into doing the right thing or something like that? Or maybe it was just the intent of the website from the get go to have the billboard and scamming never entered their mind. Whatever anyone thinks, the billboard will be out on the streets September 21st

  81. The bottom line, however, is that it’s an utter waste of money whether it was a scam or not.

    Box office for Terminator Salvation remains low:

    Domestic: $124,955,996
    + Foreign: $244,117,429
    = Worldwide: $369,073,425

    Without DVD sales at least equaling the total, the movie was not profitable. The likelihood of ANYTHING being done with the franchise now is low, despite James Middleton’s claims that he still wants to do something with the characters in some venue.

  82. Me,

    The site has changed multiple things since I and other sites attacked them. They no longer have donations for the website, etc. Why? Because we made them look stupid. The police got involved. You name it, they changed their tunes.

    They no longer ask for donations to keep the site running, which is a major scam. It costs like $10 a month at most for them. So why they ask you to donate for the cause they aren’t willing to part with $10 a month? Yeah, funny they removed it, but who knows after how many people accidentally hit that donate button instead of the other one. I’m going to guess they ended up ahead.

    The fact is it was a “get money,” scheme whether they planned on anything else is beside the point, it was obvious to most people that the site was taking advantage of fans.

    They still are. That billboard will do nothing, and the people that ran the paypal donations (one that said for the billboard, another “all around,” donation) made money off this. The show will never be back on the air. Ever.

  83. Sorry Nick, but I don’t think you have as much control or impression on that site as you think. From what I can tell, they still have a donate button. They just changed the location of where that button is. Instead of on top of the page, it’s at the bottom of the pages. And from what I remember, they’ve always asked for donations to run the site and campaigns. You’re just looking for ways to call them scammers, but they’re not. Do research, man and then you might have a little more weight to your words. No offense or nothing, just calling it like I see it.

  84. The police told me it was a ripoff. It’s just legal if they continue to do it the way they are doing it. They don’t need any donations. Nick is right, the donations were removed for at least a few weeks.

    They are making profit off of moronic fanboy lemmings like the previous poster. What could they possibly need money for? It is almost free to run a website today. The campaigns they are running don’t cost money. If they cost money then they add a new campaign.

    That web site is for profit. They are profiting off dumb ass people who think that the show can be saved.

  85. What the hell do the police know about it? You think they spent any time investigating? You think they give a crap? Really – that’s ridiculous.

    This argument has lost all sense of proportionality. The original article claimed the campaign to raise $3500 by the site for a billboard was a scam. Clearly it is not. The invoice is there for all to see. That fact seems to have been lost in the rest of the “debate”. It’s just become a slanging match. The site is perfectly entitled to ask for donations to keep it (and other campaigns) running. Whether you think these fans are moronic or not is irrelevant. It’s their choice what to do with their money and if you don’t like, then I sure they (and indeed I) really don’t care.

    I’d have thought Nick C would have been big enough to admit his (original) mistake and come clean – but clearly not. But maybe he won’t be so hasty to accuse people in future.

  86. jeff, what do you mean their campaigns don’t cost money? They’re renting out a mobile billboard for 3 days. They’re doing pre-movie theater ads for two weeks. Do you think those things are free?

  87. Morebraincellsthanyou

    Nick…C, right? I imagine your C is for Crap, cause thats what you are only capable of writing man, plain and simple crap. You dont like the TSCC show, fine, go cry in the corner and tell your family about it, but what you say just shows what a SAD, NO LIFE waste you are, but still, its people like you that keep the world in balance. If not it would only be smart good taste people around…you are sad…

  88. It takes a lot of nerve for someone to say someone else has no life when they’re the ones wasting their money on a fruitless venture. The show is not coming back. Do you realize how stupid you look to everyone else?

  89. Morebraincellsthanyou

    Its hard to understand for someone who doesnt care…but for those who care and feel an injustice has been done, they have the right to fight for what they want, if fighting for what you want is dumber than sitting around and critizising other people for their taste and desires, then yeah Im dumb and stupid. But at least I have the respect for others in not starting dumb blogs and insulting other peoples work. Sit and think

  90. This blog in particular did nothing wrong. He was pointing out that the fundraising is shady, and I think anyone can gleam that it’s stupid.

    Terminator is a franchise with a lot of legalities to get around before anyone would even consider bringing it back and doing more. Considering the massive fail that was Season 2’s ratings, it makes it more of an impossibility.

    Maybe the reason you’re so mad about this blog and comments about your stupidity is because you’re afraid we are right.

  91. Morebraincellsthanyou

    Do a search on google, all sites that point to TSCC, are save TSCC sites, not sites that talk about it being a failure…interesting…if its such a failure, such a lame piece of work then why is it so hard to find blogs like this one talking against it?? Sit and think

  92. Because TSCC fans are losers with more time to write about it and create sites to “save” it? The people who already know it’s a failure have better things to do.

  93. Morebraincellsthanyou

    Like to comment on an anti TSCC blog? Seriously, sit and think, you’ll feel better

  94. I think picking up on someone commenting about no lifer, then continuing on to call that person a loser is a bit hypocritical.

    TSCC fans leave this comment thread to the Trolls. People who actually are worth 2 shits don’t care what is written here.

    As for the show coming back, it may not. But the guys are entitled to spend their time and money any way they like.

  95. You can’t say this isn’t heart touching!!

  96. Unfortunately the show went down hill from that episode. Episode one of season two was pretty good – the rest of the season slowly became an epic fail.

  97. I loved the show! Season 2 was really good overall. The last 6 episodes were amazing and showed the true potential of the series. I hope the show does continue somehow. By the way, today is the day of the billboard.

  98. I suck.

  99. lol censored my comment
    cant take the truth he?

  100. look here

    Billboard (14)

    all scam photos. the campaign never existed right nick?

  101. Steven, did they profit off idiots? YES.

    Look up scam. They continue to profit on idiots. There is no way the show is coming back in any form. They are making people believe that if they donate there is a possibility, meanwhile they are profiting on it.

    That’s a scam.

    (Also, let’s continue this discussion over at the new site.)